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Testing stuff...
| Double Given Names | Locative | Patronymic | Other relationship | Descriptive/Occupational | Dictus | Double Bynames | Order | |
| Hungarian | Adjectival (vernacular), phrase (de X), unmarked (Latinized) | Unmarked, rarely marked (as B-fi) | metronymics (late period); wife (see notes) | Yes; without articles | byname+given (vernacular)
given+byname (Latinized) | |||
| Romanian | Phrase, adjectival (see article) | See notes | Yes | given+byname |
Notes:Hungarian: Women often have marital bynames that add -ne to her husband's complete name. See Walraven van Nijmegen, "Hungarian Names 101" (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/magyarnames1012.html) or various articles by Kolosvari Arpadne Julia in the KWHSS Proceedings for more details.
Romanian: See Aryanhwy merch Catmael, "Names from the Royal Lines of Moldavia and Wallachia" (http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/other/romanian.html) for more details. The article does not document patronymic bynames, but that appears to be an artifact of the (royal) data.
Appendix C: Regional Naming Groups...
http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/sena.html#AppendixC
| Regional Groups: | By Time Period: | Languages Included In This Group: | Can Be Combined With Groups: |
| Hungarian/Romanian | 550-1100 | Hungarian, Romanian, etc. | German
North Slavic South Slavic |
| 1100-1600 | Hungarian, Romanian, etc. | German
Mongol (per Sept 2012 CL) North Slavic South Slavic |
Precedents:
Precedents of the SCA College of Arms - http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/precedents.html Morsulus Heralds Website - http://www.morsulus.org/ (to search the LoARs and Precedents) Restatement Wiki - http://yehudaheraldry.com/restatement/index.php?title=Main_Page (restatements of Precedents)
Use the above links to be sure any precedents listed below haven't been superseded by newer precedents. Collected Name Precedents: Hungarian - http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/CompiledNamePrecedents/Hungarian.html
Collected Name Precedents: Romanian - http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/CompiledNamePrecedents/Romanian.html From the August 2013 Cover Letter:From Pelican: Some Name Resources (An Ongoing Series) Hungarian is one of the most popular Eastern European languages with submitters. It's interesting for a couple of reasons. First, it's not an Indo-European language, so it's quite different from most other European languages. Second, the kingdom of Hungary was an important medieval state. This multi-ethnic and multi-lingual state was dominated by Hungarian speakers, but also included large numbers of Romanian, German, Slovak, Serbian, and Ruthenian speakers. Ruthenian was discussed briefly last month; it's the medieval ancestor of Belarusian, Ukrainian, and Rusyn. The other Slavic languages and Romanian will be discussed in the next few months. In the medieval kingdom of Hungary, Western influences were more important than in Russia or Lithuania. Thus, Latin was an important language of record through the entire medieval period. Vernacular documents existed as well, though Latin dominated until the Renaissance. One well-known feature of Hungarian is that names do not follow the typical European name order. In vernacular (Hungarian) contexts, the given name follows the family name. In Latinized contexts, the given name precedes it. Thus, a name might be recorded in vernacular form as Andrasfi Lazlo or Nagy Miklos and in Latinized form as Laudislaus Andrasfi or Michael Nagy. As it is often difficult for the non-expert to determine if a name is Latinized or not, and many articles do not distinguish between Latinized and vernacular forms, we allow the registration of Hungarian names in either order. In Latinized names, the given names are Latinized, but bynames are often identical to the vernacular forms. This is even true for patronymic bynames; documentary Latinized forms in Hungary are as likely to look like the 1566 Ioannes Peter as the completely Latinized Ioannes (filius) Petri. Bynames of relationship are the most common type of byname. Patronymic bynames are most frequently unmarked in Hungarian: they are simply identical to the given name of the person's father, as in Ioannes Peter above. Rarely, they are formed by adding -fi or -fy, shortened forms of fia "son." There are examples of matronymic byname, formed from the given name of the person's mother. Marital bynames are formed for women by adding -ne to the end of the husband's entire name, as inMargit Sos Mathene "Margit, the wife of Mathe Salt." Additionally, occupational, descriptive, and locative bynames are all found in Hungarian.
So, how can you document elements for a Hungarian name? It remains true that books (written in Hungarian, of course) have the largest number of byname elements. If you ask on heraldry lists, you're likely to encounter people who have those books. If you have trouble, it's worth seeking out experts like Kolosvari Arpadne Julia. Julia's articles that deal with names generally have mostly been published in Known World Heraldic Symposium Proceedings, and are not available online. The exception is her "Names of property owners in northern Hungary, 1427," (which can be downloaded from http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/latex/kw/julia/julia.pdf) and her "Ethnic Bynames in Hungarian before 1600 (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/julia/EthnicBynames.html). For given names, the best sources are Walraven van Nijmegen's "Hungarian Personal Names of the 16th Century" (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/hungarian/index.html) and his "Hungarian Feminine Names" (http://heraldry.sca.org/names/magfem2.html).
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/08/13-08cl.html From the September 2012 Cover Letter:From Palimpsest and Pelican: Mismatches in Appendix C *
A couple enterprising heralds pointed out to me that there were further mismatches in Appendix C of SENA beyond the two repaired in the June 2012 Cover Letter. After consultation with Pelican, it is clear that in all cases of mismatch, they should be resolved by making them compatible in both directions. Appendix C has been updated to resolve all the mismatches. For reference, the updates are as follows (all are listed by Regional Group name): Hungarian/Romanian is added as compatible to German and South Slavic for both 550-1100 and 1100-1600; Mongol is added as compatible to Arabic, Hungarian/Romanian, Russian/East Slavic, and Turkish for 1100-1600; Persian is added as compatible to Arabic and Turkish for 1100-1600; and Turkish is added as compatible to Italian for 1100-1600. Please note that these compatibilities were already listed in Appendix C in the other direction; their omission was an oversight uncaught in proofreading. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/09/12-09cl.html