Editing Laurel Discussion at Toys for Tots 2023

Notes from moderator/organizer '''Tristram of Lindesfarne, Dux'''

“Come, let us reason together” – Isaiah 1:18
I am starting this post with this quote from the book of Isaiah in the Old Testament, not to cite any religious authority, but because it is to me the purest expression of the best of human interaction and the ONLY (non-violent) way anyone has ever changed the world for the better.

I have been sick since Toys for Tots, so I am only now getting around to writing something of a post-mortem of the discussion that happened there and some thoughts for the upcoming discussion to be held at Kris Kinder. First, I want to thank everyone who attended and really grappled with some difficult issues, both courageously and courteously. It is very difficult to talk about hard emotional issues as politely as we managed it. It seemed to me that the conversation went very well, and I hope that most people learned something. I certainly did. So, here are some thoughts about the TFT meeting (in no particular order):

1. I think that the somewhat risky decision to run the meeting in the format of an open discussion – “just speak up” rather than waiting to be recognized – worked amazingly well. It speaks well for the self-control and consideration for others of the participants that we made that work. I think we will attempt to use the same system at Kris Kinder.

2. An unexpected (for me, at least) thing that came out in this discussion is the almost total lack of understanding between the Laurels and the non-Laurels about what the Laurels are looking for in a candidate. I was really surprised at this. I think the discussion on this topic at TFT was extremely valuable, but what is even better is that several laurels have been inspired to write and post (sometimes lengthy) descriptions of their philosophy on this to the FB group. While virtually all Laurels will quibble about minor points and value different things differently, if you model yourself on any of these several descriptions, you will make yourself a candidate that the order as a whole is likely to support. I want to encourage everyone to read and think about their words. In particular (and there may be others I have missed), Mistress Elanor, Mistress Aiden, Mistress Vashti, Mistress Fionnuala, Lady Selene, Master Hugo, Master Halvgrimr, and Mistress Alvira (OP) [and Master Mellitus] all wrote very valuable things. It is more than worth matching the time they took to compose these essays with your time reading them. Mistress Maria has helped me to compile them all (and if I have missed someone, please let Maria or me know). I am not yet sure what to do with this compiled document, but we are working on it.

3. I went into the TFT meeting thinking about a sort of disconnect between what we expect from GoA-level artisans versus what we expect from Peer-level artisans. We didn’t get around to discussing that much, so I hope that we can talk about that at KK. I realized at the TFT meeting that we have two other disconnects that are worth talking about. First is this amazing lack of understanding regarding what the Laurels expect (discussed above). Second is a divide within the order of the Laurel (at least within this kingdom). I used to jokingly refer to a sub-group of the order as the “stick jock laurels” since most of them were fighters. In addition to the obvious similarities, this group used to stand out as having by far the highest standards for candidates. This is a little less true than it was, as age and retirement have changed the makeup of the Order a lot. I now think that what I was seeing back then, was not a division between fighter Laurels and non-fighter Laurels, but instead a division between Laurels who are deeply rooted in the “Arts and Sciences community” and those who aren’t. It may seem at first that there could not be a group of Laurels NOT deeply embedded in the A&S community, but it is true. For example, I have entered (and did badly in) exactly one A&S competition in 36 years. I have taught a couple of RUSH classes, but I was already a Laurel then. On the other hand, I have made a LOT of things, and I have taught a LOT of people a lot of things. I am far from alone in this trajectory, we have many Laurels who fit into this category. I think it is worth talking about these two different groups within the Order. I think this division is at the root of the confusion about what the Laurels want. If you talk to me about how to be a Laurel, I will tell you very different things than will an ‘A&S community Laurel’ and vice versa. This came out a little in the TFT meeting, as I think it was at the root of the (minor) disagreements among Laurels in attendance about what we expect. AND TO BE COMPLETELY CLEAR, I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THAT EITHER OF THESE GROUPS IS ‘RIGHT’ OR ‘BETTER’

4. One of the issues we spent a lot of time on at TFT was the issue of communication between Peers and non-Peers. I am willing to stipulate that in such a situation, the Peer has a greater responsibility to bridge that gap – but I think we still need to think about exactly how much that is. For example, it was strongly suggested that the Peer has all the responsibility. This is clearly not workable for two reasons: first, just as the populace has little idea what the Laurels are thinking (as I learned at TFT), the Laurels are not mind readers either – and often have no idea that someone might need some help or advice or whatever. Second, if I, a loud-mouthed, opinionated big and ugly (no one needs to reassure me of my great physical beauty, I am using ‘big and ugly’ in the sense of ‘potentially intimidating) Duke suddenly start giving people random or unexpected advice – that will not go well at all. And to be clear, that is exactly what was suggested by multiple people at the TFT meeting. Obviously, therefore, we need to talk about this one some more….


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 . One of the issues we spent a lot of time on at TFT was the issue of communication between Peers and non-Peers. I am willing to stipulate that in such a situation, the Peer has a greater responsibility to bridge that gap – but I think we still need to think about exactly how much that is. For example, it was strongly suggested that the Peer has all the responsibility. This is clearly not workable for two reasons: first, just as the populace has little idea what the Laurels are thinking (as I learned at TFT), the Laurels are not mind readers either – and often have no idea that someone might need some help or advice or whatever. Second, if I, a loud-mouthed, opinionated big and ugly (no one needs to reassure me of my great physical beauty, I am using ‘big and ugly’ in the sense of ‘potentially intimidating) Duke suddenly start giving people random or unexpected advice – that will not go well at all. And to be clear, that is exactly what was suggested by multiple people at the TFT meeting. Obviously, therefore, we need to talk about this one some more….
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 [[Category:Laurels]]