Our First Rose Ceremony: Difference between revisions

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This is the tale as I know it.
This is the tale as I know it.
This is the Master Juan involved in the story, Juan Macias de Alarcon. First, no, I have no idea when the first Rose Ceremony was held in Calontir. Second, this is the first time that I've seen a telling of the "roses for Caitlyn" story where the details are CORRECT! Other versions mostly have the concept as entirely a child of mine, rather than of Calontir's populace, which dilutes the honor. The yellow roses were very significant. Hugo and Caitlyn were the King and Queen who made Calontir a principality. This was part of why Caitlyn was denied the Rose by the Middle Kingdom, and a lot of why they were so beloved in Calontir. Now, when we had been a region, our only actual, written existence was that there was a deputy seneschal to the Middle Kingdom Seneschal for the Region of Calontir, whatever that was. Our entire legal existence was this deputy seneschal; IMO the hardest job anyone in Caontir has ever had to hold, since her superior, Ithriliel, hated Calontir. Her name at the time was Elwyn Firiel Galabriel. She was Elvish. She was going through some mourning for her Elvish identity that she was about to give up, but she wanted Caitlyn to know that she did not blame her. Hence, the yellow rose. Very moving. I believe it was when Elwyn presented hers that Caitlyn began to cry. Those roses were certainly yellow - the Quick Trip didn't have white roses, just red and yellow.
Master Juan again - The whole thing about the Rose did not blow up because of the Roses ceremony. It was something else - The middle Kingdom Order of Precedence. This had fallen into disarray over the years, when a mad computer programer from Calontir - me - offered to resurrect it. It took a year and a half (!) of endless letters asking old Middle Kingdom veterans if they still had a Pale (the MK newsletter) for some obscure event 6 years earlier whose court had never been sent in to the OP clerk. I managed to get the giant task finished just as we were becoming a Principality. When doing final proofreading, I noticed that I did not have Caitlyn in the Order of the Rose. Thinking that the Rose was automatic, I just included her, on her stepping-down date. My best source of info in the whole project was Duchess Caellyn Fitzhugh. She noticed that Caitlyn was in the Rose. She knew that Caitlyn should not be there; she had been one of the no votes. She got REAL mad at me and threw a hissy. I apologized helplessly, but Caellyn got serious, and the issue went to the Board of Directors!! The BoD ruled that the Rose was automatic, but that individual kingdoms could put it anywhere in their Kingdom Order of Precedences that they wanted - it was no longer an automatic Peerage, which is how it had been treated, which is a lot of why things got so serious. It had been a peerage. A Royal Peerage. Caellyn was angry for a real reason. And that's the story behind the story.  P.S. I do not give Caellyn a bad time over this. Not at all. I had a year and a half's worth of old courts to find. Of that material, Caellyn - just she herself - sent me about HALF of what I got. Duke Finnvarr, to whom I am squired, sent in another third. Everybody else - EVERYBODY ELSE - was responsible for the remaining sixth. Caellyn earned her Pelican on that one. And the Rose was, in the Middle Kingdom, a Royal Peerage at the time. I've seen people get worked up on similar issues about MUCH lesser orders than Royal Peerages... <I, myself have been told that I was denied my Knighthood over very similar issues, and that still hurts every day. A Royal Peerage?> I mean, it was important enough to get to the BoD. Her Grace was right to get worked up. P.P.S. The rose colors were red for love and yellow for friendship. The Elvish personas wanted to express closeness to Caitlyn, but not full-bore love, because she was making them give up their personas. That's what was going on there. I think it was Elwyn who asked if there were yellow roses available at the Quick Trip. It was not my idea. Caitlyn really choked up when she found out that even the Elves wanted in on the roses.
Ithrilliel of Silverlake:  I didn't remember anything about red vs yellow roses. Mistress Marian of Heatherdale's song "White Rose" is about that Court. (I wasn't there, but I was active in the Midrealm [now Ealdormere] during this.)
Mellitis: I knew that the song was inspired by this story. I had loved the song but didn't know what it truly about until I met Mistress Marian at an online bardic. She told me what she had written about and I was like "OMG - this story is HUGE piece of Calontir history. We also agreed it was a great example of bardic drift because by the time the story reached her, the roses the elves brought were white. It's still a great song and one my favorites.
Branwen ferch Rhael:  At least for the last 25 years, the color of roses presented in the ceremony has been either the choice of the recipient or the prior queen hosting it, or what has been available. Sometimes there have been silk or other nonperishable flowers, which I think is a nice touch when possible (they tend to be costlier).
Fionna nic Alisdair: I was at the event where the roses were given to Caitlyn and have no memory of the significance of the color of the roses. Alarba had taken me under her wing (and I later became her apprentice) which is why I was at the event. I imagine she just gave me a rose and some instructions on how to bow in court! I’m not sure yellow roses for the Calontir rose ceremony was ever set in stone; I’d never heard it was a tradition. Back in the olden days, you got whatever roses you could find at Sams (or similar store) because no one could afford flower shop prices! And Sams would often have a free big bucket for the copious amount of roses one was getting.
Maerwynn: I've always loved this story (in my mind's eye this happened while Caitlin was on the throne, and her detractors were there to see it). It's been my experience that it is not tradition (tm) to use yellow roses, but they are often the easiest to find bunches of. I've seen red and yellow for sure (purple roses have been historically *expensive,* which could play into it).


[[Category:History]] [[Category:Awards]]
[[Category:History]] [[Category:Awards]]

Latest revision as of 10:48, 16 October 2023

by Master Mellitis of Rouncivale

It has been requested that I tell the story behind Calontir's Rose Ceremony. Here is the tale as I have learned it.  I invite those who were there to point out any errors.

In the early days of Calontir, Hugo and Caitlin came to be the King and Queen of the Middle Kingdom. At that time, Calontir was still part of the Middle Kingdom. Hugo and Caitlin were well-loved by their Calontir subjects. For all that Hugo and Caitlin lived far away in what is now Ealdormere, they were often seen at events in Calontr.

There was some drama going on the SCA at the time surrounding the use of elvish personas. This may seem strange to us now, but remember that the SCA grew alonside the Science Fiction and Fantasy community and many of the SCA's earliest members found our organization through convention. Tolkein and Tolkein-esque fantasy was very popular at the time. Thus, many early SCA members chose to be elven.

Hugo and Caitlin believed that the SCA should be history-focused and not have the fantasy element. Thus, elvish personae were discouraged during their reign. Considering that their predecessors were Laurelen and Ithireal, this was a point of contention between Hugo and Caitlin and the Midrealm establishment. There were other things that the establishment didn't like about Hugo and Caitlin. Basically, they were from the outskirts of the Kingdom, rarely saw the ruling establishment, and were part of charting what would be Ealdormere one day. Kind of like Calontir actually. They fit in with us.

At this time, the Midrealm Order of the Rose was a polling order, where prior consorts met to decide if the consort stepping down should be admitted. Caitlin was denied entry into the Order of the Rose when her reign ended. To me knowledge, this was the first time that a Midrealm queen was not given the Rose when she stepped down.

Since Caitlin was loved in Calontir and the people here were not happy with Caitlin being denied a rose, they wanted to do something for her to show their love and support.

Some time after they stepped down, Count Hugo and Countess Caitlin came to an event in Three Rivers. Master Juan had seen roses for sale at a convenience store on sale for a quarter. Red and yellow roses were available. Juan asked people at the event if they thought the roses would be a suitable gift for Caitlin, and they agreed. Juan collected quarters and bought every rose they had.

Once the roses were gathered, the populace of Calontir processed up to Caitlin and placed the roses in her arms. Members of the populace with history-based personae gave Caitlin red roses. Those with elvish personae presented yellow roses to Caitlin. I am told it was a moving gesture and Caitlin openly wept at the honor Calontir showed her.

When Calontir became a kingdom a few years later, Caitlin's experience was fresh in the memory of those who wrote our laws. Thus in Calontir, the Order of the Rose is automatically given to consorts at the end of their reigns. Also, at each coronation, the consort who just stepped down is given a rose vigil where members of the populace can meet with them and present them a yellow rose, in memory of the presentation of roses to Countess Caitlin.

Caitlin would have another reign, but this time as Queen of Ealdormere. She and Ealdormere suffered tragedy when her King, Thornjorn Osis, was killed in a tragic automobile accident. Caitlin finished that reign alone and was inducted into the Order of the Rose after her reign ended. Duchess Caitlin passed away earlier this year [2023], but she is remembered every time we present roses to our retiring consorts.

This is the tale as I know it.

This is the Master Juan involved in the story, Juan Macias de Alarcon. First, no, I have no idea when the first Rose Ceremony was held in Calontir. Second, this is the first time that I've seen a telling of the "roses for Caitlyn" story where the details are CORRECT! Other versions mostly have the concept as entirely a child of mine, rather than of Calontir's populace, which dilutes the honor. The yellow roses were very significant. Hugo and Caitlyn were the King and Queen who made Calontir a principality. This was part of why Caitlyn was denied the Rose by the Middle Kingdom, and a lot of why they were so beloved in Calontir. Now, when we had been a region, our only actual, written existence was that there was a deputy seneschal to the Middle Kingdom Seneschal for the Region of Calontir, whatever that was. Our entire legal existence was this deputy seneschal; IMO the hardest job anyone in Caontir has ever had to hold, since her superior, Ithriliel, hated Calontir. Her name at the time was Elwyn Firiel Galabriel. She was Elvish. She was going through some mourning for her Elvish identity that she was about to give up, but she wanted Caitlyn to know that she did not blame her. Hence, the yellow rose. Very moving. I believe it was when Elwyn presented hers that Caitlyn began to cry. Those roses were certainly yellow - the Quick Trip didn't have white roses, just red and yellow.
Master Juan again - The whole thing about the Rose did not blow up because of the Roses ceremony. It was something else - The middle Kingdom Order of Precedence. This had fallen into disarray over the years, when a mad computer programer from Calontir - me - offered to resurrect it. It took a year and a half (!) of endless letters asking old Middle Kingdom veterans if they still had a Pale (the MK newsletter) for some obscure event 6 years earlier whose court had never been sent in to the OP clerk. I managed to get the giant task finished just as we were becoming a Principality. When doing final proofreading, I noticed that I did not have Caitlyn in the Order of the Rose. Thinking that the Rose was automatic, I just included her, on her stepping-down date. My best source of info in the whole project was Duchess Caellyn Fitzhugh. She noticed that Caitlyn was in the Rose. She knew that Caitlyn should not be there; she had been one of the no votes. She got REAL mad at me and threw a hissy. I apologized helplessly, but Caellyn got serious, and the issue went to the Board of Directors!! The BoD ruled that the Rose was automatic, but that individual kingdoms could put it anywhere in their Kingdom Order of Precedences that they wanted - it was no longer an automatic Peerage, which is how it had been treated, which is a lot of why things got so serious. It had been a peerage. A Royal Peerage. Caellyn was angry for a real reason. And that's the story behind the story.  P.S. I do not give Caellyn a bad time over this. Not at all. I had a year and a half's worth of old courts to find. Of that material, Caellyn - just she herself - sent me about HALF of what I got. Duke Finnvarr, to whom I am squired, sent in another third. Everybody else - EVERYBODY ELSE - was responsible for the remaining sixth. Caellyn earned her Pelican on that one. And the Rose was, in the Middle Kingdom, a Royal Peerage at the time. I've seen people get worked up on similar issues about MUCH lesser orders than Royal Peerages... <I, myself have been told that I was denied my Knighthood over very similar issues, and that still hurts every day. A Royal Peerage?> I mean, it was important enough to get to the BoD. Her Grace was right to get worked up. P.P.S. The rose colors were red for love and yellow for friendship. The Elvish personas wanted to express closeness to Caitlyn, but not full-bore love, because she was making them give up their personas. That's what was going on there. I think it was Elwyn who asked if there were yellow roses available at the Quick Trip. It was not my idea. Caitlyn really choked up when she found out that even the Elves wanted in on the roses.
Ithrilliel of Silverlake:  I didn't remember anything about red vs yellow roses. Mistress Marian of Heatherdale's song "White Rose" is about that Court. (I wasn't there, but I was active in the Midrealm [now Ealdormere] during this.)
Mellitis: I knew that the song was inspired by this story. I had loved the song but didn't know what it truly about until I met Mistress Marian at an online bardic. She told me what she had written about and I was like "OMG - this story is HUGE piece of Calontir history. We also agreed it was a great example of bardic drift because by the time the story reached her, the roses the elves brought were white. It's still a great song and one my favorites.
Branwen ferch Rhael:  At least for the last 25 years, the color of roses presented in the ceremony has been either the choice of the recipient or the prior queen hosting it, or what has been available. Sometimes there have been silk or other nonperishable flowers, which I think is a nice touch when possible (they tend to be costlier).
Fionna nic Alisdair: I was at the event where the roses were given to Caitlyn and have no memory of the significance of the color of the roses. Alarba had taken me under her wing (and I later became her apprentice) which is why I was at the event. I imagine she just gave me a rose and some instructions on how to bow in court! I’m not sure yellow roses for the Calontir rose ceremony was ever set in stone; I’d never heard it was a tradition. Back in the olden days, you got whatever roses you could find at Sams (or similar store) because no one could afford flower shop prices! And Sams would often have a free big bucket for the copious amount of roses one was getting.
Maerwynn: I've always loved this story (in my mind's eye this happened while Caitlin was on the throne, and her detractors were there to see it). It's been my experience that it is not tradition (tm) to use yellow roses, but they are often the easiest to find bunches of. I've seen red and yellow for sure (purple roses have been historically *expensive,* which could play into it).